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In this episode of Adult ISH, we teamed up with Hopelab, a social innovation lab working to remove systemic barriers to youth mental health.
Hopelab just published a study that highlights how LGBTQIA+ Gen Z youth form deep emotional bonds with social media creators, impacting their mental health and sense of identity. Hopelab’s survey of 1,715 young people ages 13 to 22, reveals how these parasocial relationships provide validation and community, offering much-needed support that many lack in their offline lives. For many, TikTok and Instagram aren’t just for fun — they’re lifelines for self-expression and community.
Adult ISH hosts Nyge Turner and Christian Romo have conversations with Hopelab principal researcher Mike Parent and Angel Joy Flores (@arkangeljoy), a transfemme content creator, streamer, performer, and coach, focused on celebrating LGBTQ+ lifestyle and visibility.
Adult ISH is produced by YR Media and brought to you by PRX’s Radiotopia. Be sure to follow all our socials @YRAdultISH!
Episode Transcript
NYGE: Welcome to Adult ISH – produced by YR Media – and brought to you by Radiotopia from PRX. I’m Nyge Turner.
CHRISTIAN: and I’m Christian Romo.
CHRISTIAN: In this special episode of Adult ISH, we’ve teamed up with Hopelab, a social innovation lab working to remove systemic barriers to youth mental health.
CHRISTIAN: HopeLab just published a study that highlights new information on the power of content creators for queer youth.
ANGEL: I didn’t grow up with many idols, um, especially like after I came out as trans, um, and so for, for me, there wasn’t much of an experience of like being able to see people live a proud experience as a trans person, as a queer person in general. And so, um, for other people who follow me and then who see me as an idol, there is definitely an effect of, of pride, um, that, that spreads through like everything they do in the, the lives that they live.
CHRISTIAN: That’s Angel Joy Flores, a transfemme content creator, streamer, performer, and coach, focused on celebrating LGBTQ+ lifestyle and visibility. We’ll hear more from her later.
CHRISTIAN: Now, as someone who has previously claimed to be “chronically online” before it was officially a thing – I was excited to get a chance to discuss these dynamics through a deeper lense. From a creator who makes it their business to be visible online sharing their lived experiences likeness, and love for the world.
CHRISTIAN: But before we get to Angel, we’re kicking off this episode with a conversation between Nyge and Mike Parent, principal researcher at Hopelab. When Nyge sat down with Mike, he asked him what they were looking to find out.
MIKE: So this work builds on a body of research on what we call parasocial relationships. Those are the relationships that we form with people who we don’t really know in our personal life. We wouldn’t call them friends. Um, that research really began in the era of like, even television and radio. In terms of things like trustworthiness for newscasters. Um, and then really burgeoned as sitcoms became more diverse. What researchers then found is that watching shows like “Will and Grace” for many people, Will was the only gay person they knew or thought they knew or knew they knew. Um, and Watching that person on television actually improved attitudes toward gay people. And then further and further research has been done on this, finding essentially that these parasocial relationships were helpful in the context of television.
Of course, now many more people consume media via social media, which allows for — it’s not exactly the same as television. You know, people are sort of acting or playing a kind of role, but are more often being more authentic or themselves than playing a scripted part.
Um, and people begin to develop, uh, these parasocial relationships with content creators who share similar identities and who they can identify with more authentically perhaps than many television, uh, kind of fictional characters. Uh, and so our goal here was really to explore how LGBTQ+ young people, um, kind of construct and navigate these relationships and what some of the potential benefits might be to them.
NYGE: And what were some of the things that you learned from, from this work?
MIKE: Sure, so a couple of things. One was that these parasocial relationships are very, very common. So most of our sample reported having one LGBTQ content creator who they saw as being like, we, we just call them favorite. So your favorite content creator. The vast majority of the sample could identify one person and then the parasocial relationships that they had with these folks was very strong. Another really interesting finding that came out of the data was that these parasocial relationships, if, if I asked you, you might think people would say people like, you know, Sam Smith or like massively popular, uh, media personalities. But that actually wasn’t the case.
The majority of people who were identified as favorite content creators were pretty, were, were still, you know, more famous than me, uh, but still having, uh, you know, one one hundredth of the following of a major celebrity. So they weren’t these massive international brands. They were fairly, what we would call kind of middle-level popularity, uh, content creators, doing like a variety of things. Sometimes just Twitch streaming, playing video games and making some jokes.
So this really tells us that to have an impact, these content creators don’t need to wait until they become as popular as, like, Lady Gaga to be able to have a beneficial impact on, um, people who share the same identity as them.
NYGE: That’s really interesting. I mean, when you started talking about “Will and Grace” and how, uh, most people when that show was on only were identifying with — Will was like the only gay person that they knew or felt like they knew. I think it’s, I think it’s super interesting because that was a TV show, but now we engage with, with content on such more of a personal level and we really get to know that person, not just like a character. And so I’m interested, like, since people are like watching podcasts now and taking in like all of this content, like more and more and more and more and more. Like, do you feel like it, those parasocial relationships are even stronger because you know that person’s life and kind of intimate feelings on such a deeper level?
MIKE: Oh, yeah, I think certainly that’s true. Yeah, I think, I think you’re right that, you know, it was, Will was a character played by an actor who isn’t gay, as far as I know. Eric McCormack.
MIKE: Um, and so, so that, that was a character that was a fictional creation that still had this effect. Now, people have parasocial relationships with people who are being generally themselves. You know, I think obviously the content creators have good boundaries and aren’t, you know, disclosing everything about themselves, as is appropriate for that content creator. But they are letting people in kind of behind the scenes a lot more than people were with regard to newscasters or fictional TV characters. And the impact of that is a stronger sense of connection with a real live person.
NYGE: There have been other studies about LGBTQ+ youth using social media that show success in finding community and connections with people who can relate, but there are also points about finding more discrimination online and higher rates of depression, anxiety, and substance use. What do you say to those kinds of concerns?
MIKE: Oh, I think we, we need to acknowledge that social media in general is a double edged sword. So there are many things that can be positive and there are many things that can be negative. As you mentioned experiences of discrimination or harassment, cyber bullying that kind of a thing or not even that in that personal. Maybe just coming across this negative content that isn’t made toward you personally, but it’s made toward a group to which you belong and that can feel really damaging, especially if people come across that over and over and over.
And we all know that there are people who seem to have no other part of their life other than making rude comments on the internet And seem to take that as their full time job. So it’s not like there’s a limit on — or it’s not like these negative experiences are rare. They’re pretty common. What we’d like to see though is how social media can be used to create positivity, inspiration, creativity, connection, with real life people. So not some troll commenting in someone’s comments that, you know, some negative thing, but being able to form these meaningful connections with people who share some similar identities to ourselves through social media can also be very beneficial and helpful to people.
As you said, perhaps, especially people who are more isolated, kind of struggle to find people who are very similar to themselves in their everyday life experiences, kind of in, in real life.
NYGE: What was the impact following these creators had on these young people?
MIKE: So we found that the parasocial relationships with them were strong. Uh, people had strong parasocial relationships with these content creators, and that those parasocial relationships were generally good. Um, it seemed like from our data, in particular for trans and non-binary youth, there were, there was a relationship between having stronger parasocial relationships and having more pride in one’s identity and sense of community connectedness with other trans and non-binary folks. That doesn’t, of course, necessarily mean that one causes the other, but it does mean that they, um, kind of move together within the data.
NYGE: What are your biggest takeaways from this survey?
MIKE: So one thing is that these parasocial relationships are really, really common and they’re quite strong. I think sometimes people get a negative impression of parasocial relationships. I think sometimes people think of it as like stalking, or obsession and it’s really not that. It’s just a sense of a connection with someone who was a content creator or media personality. And so they’re more common than people might think. And they’re quite strong. And they’re usually beneficial. So they help people to gain some insights from people who are similar to them in some ways and have some differences. So it’s not exactly a mirror image of the, uh, consumer of the content. It’s, it’s another human being who has their own, uh, set of identities and experiences and knowledge. So being able to do that helps people to bridge, to understand both people who are similar to them and that people are sometimes different and help to build those connections. And then, if you’re making content, you might only have a hundred followers, but you could be really impactful to some of those folks. So you don’t have to wait until you think you have, you know, a hundred million folks following you to feel like your contributions to positivity and inclusivity on the internet and on social media could be impacting folks
NYGE: Mike thanks for joining me to talk about your latest report.
NYGE: That was Mike Parent, Principal Researcher at Hopelab. You can connect with him at Hopelab.org, or you can find a link on our episode page at YR.Media/Adult-ish.
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CHRISTIAN: Listening to Nyge and Mike discuss the HopeLab study got me thinking a lot about trans creators showing up online. In a world where trans representation in the media is nowhere near where it could be, how are trans youth and trans influencers interacting with each other online? It’s not exactly easy to find resources to study “how to grow up,” trans. All the more reason why trans influencers play a critical role in trans youth finding pride in their identity and finding the strength to exist openly. To go deeper on the topic and more, I had the honor of speaking with Angel Joy Flores.
ANGEL: So I am a content creator first, um, performer second and coach third, I guess you could say. My content’s very like LGBTQ lifestyle, very, uh, focused on like celebrating the life that I, that I’ve been living and people like me have been living and kind of just like spreading more info about like just our existence period.
CHRISTIAN: How do you see your content impacting your followers?
ANGEL: Um, really what’s, what started it all was like my, my episode on Netflix’s Queer Eye. And that kind of like did a lot of like inspiration and also just like created a lot more awareness for people like me. I had a lot of messages post the show, um, as I was kind of getting like a bigger following, um, where people were just telling me that they were just constantly, um, just blown away by just like how I live my life and how open I was and how out I was. And more and more people would message me saying that they felt inspired to, um, come out and be open and be proud, um, just by seeing another person on screen like that. And so it’s really been the same throughout like the past two years of, of doing online content. It’s been about kind of just inspiring people to be proud of who they are and also just inspiring them to be more of who they are. I think a lot of people just don’t realize who they truly could be until they actually ask the question.
CHRISTIAN: Speaking of pride, do you see your work providing gender affirmation or pride in identity and community?
ANGEL: Uh, yes, absolutely. Um, there’s just a lot of like, people tend to feel more proud of who they are when they have people like them that are very, very proud of who they are, right?
Like they’re, they’re sort of like a ripple effect of pride that kind of ripples out from people that they idolize. Um, I didn’t grow up with many idols, um, especially like after I came out as trans. And so for, for me, there wasn’t much of an experience of like being able to see people live a proud experience as a trans person, as a queer person in general. And so, um, for other people who follow me and then who see me as an idol, there is definitely an effect of, of pride, um, that, that spreads through like everything they do and the lives that they live.
CHRISTIAN: Wow. I really love that way you put it of a ripple effect. That’s yeah, it’s really deep. Um, all right, now we’re kind of getting into the meat and potatoes of this conversation. What does the term parasocial relationship mean to you?
ANGEL: Oh, that’s a great question. Ah, there’s so much to it, right? Like,parasocial relationship, for me, is very much, like, how I’ve affected people and how people interact with me based on how I’ve affected them. Right? Um, I know that a lot of people tend to stick to just like the basic, the basic definition of like like, oh, this is just how how my fans, my followers like interact with me. Um, but for me there’s so much more to it in that like I have had an impact on so many people and a positive impact on so many people right? And so to be able to kind of see their experiences and hear about their experiences, um, after feeling inspired or, or while being inspired by the things that I do or have done. Essentially, like, being able to listen to and see experiences post, like, being inspired by me, um, not only, like, helps me kind of see, like, what effects that my content has, but also helps, like, inspire me to do more, right? And I think that kind of rounds out how I experience parasocial relationships.
CHRISTIAN: I’m curious about what percentage of your audience, uh, consists of teens and young people 18 through 24, and I want to know how they show up in your community.
ANGEL: Gotcha. I honestly could just pull up the stats right now if you really wanted me to.
CHRISTIAN: Wow. Receipts.
ANGEL: Yeah just a couple receipts. Just off my Instagram alone. Just reach in general, let’s go down to audience, um, age range. Yeah. 18 to 24 is half of my Instagram followers I would say like anywhere from 18 to about like 35 tends to be where my people sit.
Um, based on like what content I’m posting at the time, whether I’m talking about being queer or talking about relationships and especially like non-monogamy, or I’m talking about, um, just existence in general. Right? Um, I think that the 18 to 24 age range my content appeals to them specifically because it’s very relatable. I get a lot of just like people saying like, This is real. This is real. This is what I’ve experienced. And they tell their story in the comments, right?
It’s not just like 20 people telling me, I’m hot in the comments all the time. It’s like: Okay like I’ve had this, I’ve had this experience. This is how I’ve experienced it. This is how I see it. Um, and that’s like a really really good, a kind of a really, really good conversation, um, hub for, for, for stuff that comes up in my content.
CHRISTIAN: Yeah. Wow. I love to hear that. Cause I already know how the internet can be and just like, just hearing how, how it’s kind of more reciprocal in your communities, like really beautiful to hear.
So, I want to read you a quote from a recent Hopelab study about queer youth and content creators and get your reaction: When reading about other POC transmasc experiences, especially from older trans people, I feel joyed that one day that could be me. One day I can be a thriving trans man as an adult.
ANGEL: Um, reaction, I completely agree. Like, I, I think for, for me,as a trans woman and then moving into like my transition back in, back in 2019, There was kind of a hopeless moment where I looked at things and I said, okay, I don’t really see many people that are, that are older and they’re like me.
Especially as an athlete too, like I entered the spaces as a, as a queer athlete and as a trans athlete. And so, um, to look towards the future and not see many people doing, doing what I wanted to do and doing, doing me. Right. Um, I. Had a moment of how am I supposed to get further than this, right?
Am I supposed to just do it myself? There’s no, there’s no textbook. There’s no outline for what my life is supposed to look like. And so, um, I’ve had a lot of, especially younger folk, where they’re like reaching their legal adulthood and they’re making their own medical decisions and they’re, they’re choosing to change their lives drastically and are able to go on and have faith that things will be okay because people like me exist and, and like beyond me, like other trans content creators exist, right?
Um, Whether they’re focused on comedy or, or inspiration or lifestyle or, or weightlifting or whatever it is, the more that we’re able to exist openly, um, as who we are, um, the more that other people will feel inspired to do the same.
CHRISTIAN: How has using the the platforms on social media molded your experience as a figure online? What are some of the benefits and drawbacks of being so visible?
ANGEL: Like the benefits of course are our visibility and of course like a career, right?
In terms of negatives, I have to say that like — I had a lot of struggle in my first year. I was trying to be something I wasn’t. Like, I think I had, I went from having a thousand followers to 130 in, in, in the maybe two weeks, um, 130 thousand.
Um, and for me, there was no like transitionary period of, Oh, I, I can learn how to do this and I can learn how to be a popular figure online. I can learn how to, um, like use social media in a, in a way that is healthy for me. So I kind of just like did what other people were doing and tried to like play my personality and my individuality into what the algorithm and what the platform wanted me to post. And, and wanted me to be, It was just so exhausting to not be truly myself for the sake of trying to grow. Right? Um, there was a lack of authenticity there. No matter how well I hit it. No matter how well people would say, like, you’re, you’re very authentic. You’re very straightforward. Um, I didn’t feel as authentic to my true self as I could be. So for 2023, I took a break.And I came back with kind of a, a, a reframed mind where I looked at the platform and I said, okay, negatives: the algorithm, negatives: self image, negatives: um, like trying to play to your audience. Right? Um, and I came back and I said, like, I had to play to myself and if they don’t like that, then that’s just how it is. Right? And, and I will grow based off, like, based off whether people like me or not. But that has to be, that has to be on them. That’s not on me. Um, and so I’ve found a lot healthier place now, and I’m growing a lot more thanks to that. Um, cause people genuinely do see the authenticity, but in terms of negatives, I really have to say the biggest one has to be like getting stuck in that box of like, this is who I’m supposed to be on this platform as opposed to just like being yourself. Right? Um, I get questions all the time from people like, how did you break into that?
And I said, well, you break into it by being yourself, not by being somebody else.
CHRISTIAN: Yeah. It, it just feels like whenever I’m on these platforms, there’s always like that template. There’s always like a, like the, the new trend. So for you to like, give your insight on like like receiving said opportunities and just being like, you know what? Nah. Cause that, that’s, that takes a lot of willpower. That takes a lot of just, self awareness that you’re just like, yeah, this, this doesn’t feel right. But that’s also the like path not often taken. So that’s, that’s really brave for you to like, really just be like, nah, I’m gonna do me.
You mentioned previously not having examples of trans femininity when you were younger. Um, where were you learning about transness? If you don’t mind.
ANGEL: Um, yeah, so, so growing up until, until about college, I really didn’t have any examples of like what I was feeling. Right? I think, um, for a lot of us, we grew up thinking like something’s off. Right? And I didn’t have any language or ideas of what that could possibly look like or be. I maybe encountered like one trans person and otherwise, it’s like, it’s, it’s media and, and like TV shows and, and movies where trans people, especially in like the, in like the late 90s, early 2000s and, and beyond that, um, are just not portrayed in a very positive light, right? We’re, we’re the, we’re the butt of a joke or we’re, we’re highly sexualized and oversexualized.
Um, and so it wasn’t until I, like, got to about like my junior or senior year, came out as queer and started like reading up about like different queer topics, um, at the end of high school, where I finally kind of like, learned a bit more, right? I wasn’t there yet in terms of like coming out and understanding where I was truly, but I knew that I was queer in some form or fashion. Right?
Um, I went from the like, very, very capable ally to: Okay, I’m queer, but I don’t know what. Um, and then finally in college, I was around trans people. I met trans people. I remember, I went thrifting once, um, in college. I remember I went to go like try on like, uh, some clothes. And the girl that greeted me like outside the dressing room, um, she turned, I said, hi, I told her that I liked her outfit, um, and that her hair is very pretty. And she just smiled and we, we had a brief conversation.She just had this beaming smile on her face because she felt affirmed in that moment. And it wasn’t until later that the friend that I had gone with told me, like, I think she was, I think she was trans, that I was like, Oh, she looked really happy. She looked really happy to like be acknowledged and seen as who she truly was.
Um, and I think it took me about like, Hmm, six months after that to come out. Um, I, uh, there was a Australian, I think it was actually, they’re actually a New Zealand content creator, um, Toby on the Tele, um, where, uh, essentially she was on, uh, the misfits podcast. Like they’re that the little, like a little like YouTube gang, um, that I don’t quite watch anymore because they, they pushed the boundaries sometimes. They had a podcast once and, um, essentially Toby is telling this story the entire time about how, how the experiences that Toby was having were just different. Like, everything about, like, Toby’s childhood and, and, and life were just different. They always knew something was off. They always, they, they preferred to hang out with the girls. They couldn’t connect with boys. They couldn’t connect with, um, with friends that they thought that they were supposed to be making.
Um, and they couldn’t live a life that they thought they were supposed to be. Um. And at the end of the podcast, um, I was on an hour-long drive back to San Antonio from Austin. And at the end of the podcast, she, she sits and she says, I’m coming out as trans. Right now. I am a, I am a trans woman. And. I pulled the car over and just sat. I just sat. And I was like, Whoa, is that? I think that’s me. Like, I think that’s, I think that’s who I’m supposed to be. I remember I texted my best friend at the time, um, uh, an out-and-proud lesbian. And I was like, Do you think I…?? Do you think I could be trans? Like, do you think I’m a, I’m a trans woman? And, and to be, uh, to, to give context, I was a very masculine, very, uh, muscular, very, like, gym rat, gym bro.
And so for me to text my best friend and say, I think I might actually be a woman, um, was definitely out of left field. But after the two of us kind of, like, sat for coffee and sat on it and said, like, oh, maybe I am feeling this. I think that, uh, like that kind of just helps round out my coming out experience, right?
It helps kind of like create this snowball effect of needing to be who I was and like, and finally making the moves and changes that I needed to make to be myself. I’d say that like, in terms of people that I looked up to or not even looked up to, but just like learn from it would have to be just like Toby. Honestly, like, I’m not even sure like what, what content she makes anymore. I think she’s just, she like pivoted to cars instead of video games at some point. Um, but she was like a very formulative, um, or formulative experience for me. And when, when she was talking on the podcast and, and, and making points and, um, and part of that crew.
CHRISTIAN: Yeah, that sounds like a really jaw dropping moment, especially like in that environment of going through a long drive and then you just literally had to pump the brakes. Wow. What a story. Um. Great name too, Toby on the Tele! Are there any questions you wish people would ask you?
ANGEL: I think that, um, when you have this con it’s constant and consistent online presence, um, especially when like you have a content plan and you’re speaking from a place of like, uh, trying to find topics and subjects to talk about. Right? Um, I think that people oftentimes are so focused on the thing that you’re talking about, that, that they kind of lose the person behind the camera, right?
Or the person in front of the camera, even. Even in my personal life, I have friends that um, they, they don’t do it on purpose, but they almost forget to reach out. They almost forget to be like, Hey, how are you doing? Right? Because they they feel like, Okay I saw you a few minutes ago. You’re on, you’re on everything. You look fine. You look great. Um, you’re beautiful. Okay, what could be wrong? Um, yeah. And there are some, some points where I still want to talk about a subject, but I’m not doing too great up here. You know, I’m, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m struggling a little bit. I’m going through a hard time, going through a breakup or I’m going through, um, a loss of friendship or I’m just stressed out. Right?
CHRISTIAN: Yeah, you’re human.
ANGEL: Yeah. I’m human. And sometimes I wish that some people would, would simply sit back and be like, Hey, you okay? What’s up? How’s your day? How are you doing? That’s one of the reasons I appreciate like Twitch streaming is that like I can, I can jump on and people will, people will notice really fast. Like, okay, like you’re, you’re having a rough day. Your gameplay sucks, but also you’re having a rough day. And, uh,
CHRISTIAN: Totally within the same chat message.
ANGEL: Yeah. Like, Hey, you’re not doing so good today. Um, are you good? Um, and so I think that sometimes people kind of lose track of that and I, nobody is truly, um, like, at least in my experience, through my community, nobody has truly been so self centered that they don’t want to reach out and say something. I think people just kind of forget sometimes, right? That there are humans in front of them. There are humans on their screen and sometimes it’s nice to just be like, Hey, like this is a great topic. How are you? You know? in terms of other questions, I think that, like, I as a person, as a queer person, as a trans person, have a very unique identity. And that I don’t really like, I don’t truly cling to any strict labeling of, like, what I am or who I am.
I am trans feminine and queer. And that could mean any range of number of things.
Sometimes I sit here and say, like, I am today, I’m kind of genderless. Like, I don’t really need you to gender mean if you, if you need to go, go like choose girl, but if you, if you can don’t. Um, and in terms of my queerness, like I don’t limit myself in terms of like who I see, who I, who I like, what, what I’m like, what I act like. Um, oftentimes it feels like I’m putting on a million different masks all day, um, and just, and just switching it up.
And so I think that, um, while, yes, I can use that as a topic and use that as like, um, as something that I can speak upon and speak about, I think that, like people who are interested could ask more questions about that. I think that while labels and, and, uh, and structures are very useful. Once we start to peel those structures away, things get very interesting and people should feel entitled to ask questions about that. And to start asking questions, not only about me and about other people like me, but also of themselves.
CHRISTIAN: Yeah. What’s behind the mask.
ANGEL: Exactly. Yeah
CHRISTIAN: That was Angel Joy Flores. You can connect with Angel online at arkangeljoy that’s A-R-K-ANGEL-JOY or you can find a link on our episode page at YR dot Media slash Adult hyphen Ish.
CHRISTIAN: I want to say thanks to Mike and Angel for joining us on this episode of Adult ISH and also give a special shoutout to HopeLab for sharing their study with us.
CHRISTIAN: Parasocial relationships can provide a chance to find and foster relationships with people with similar identities. While it may take some time to shake the stigma off, it’s evident that this dynamic can benefit those who might have had fewer personal offline connections.
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CHRISTIAN: Adult ISH is produced by YR Media, a national network of young artists and journalists creating content for this generation.
CHRISTIAN: Our show is produced by Fredia Lucas, Nyge Turner, Shaylyn Martos, Christian Escobar, and by me, Christian Romo.
CHRISTIAN: Thanks to Hopelab for collaborating on this episode.
NYGE: Original music for this episode created by these young musicians at YR:
NYGE: Christian Romo, Anders Knutstad, Noah Holt, Jacob Armenta, Chaz Whitley, Michael Diaz, Sean Luciano Galarza, and David Lawrence.
Adult ISH is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent creator-owned, listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia-dot-F-M (Radiotopia.fm)
NYGE: And if you haven’t reviewed our show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please be sure to do so. Five stars is much-appreciated.
NYGE: You can follow us on all the socials at Y-R Adult ISH (@yradultish).
CHRISTIAN: And on that note, we’ll see ya.